+8
Completed

Units stop acting after prolonged games

wuschelteddy 3 years ago • updated by Lee "Noontide" Moon (Community Manager) 2 years ago 44 1 duplicate

Hello,


the title says it all. I build a map with the sole purpose to constant fight enemy AI's in prolonged games. After about 45min into the game, when it gets really crowded, the imps just stop working most of the time. Also noticeable is that the units only occasionally attack each other and basically just stareoff mpst of the time.


(I have this every time and basically also on every 4 player map)


Cheers!

Game Version:
Steam Public
Platform:
Windows
GOOD, I'M SATISFIED

Thanks a lot! A lot of ppl put a lot of effort into this and I am thrilled to see the outcome soon. The amount of interaction with anyone from Support/Technical is awesome!

Satisfaction mark by wuschelteddy 3 years ago

Duplicates 1

Under Review

we have a few reports like this, we will have a look.

Thanks a lot. If you need any more information please just ask freely :)

Hello Wuschelteddy,
if you know any steps to reliably reproduce the issue, so that we can debug it, this could help us a lot.

Cheers

+1

Euh well, since I just relax with this and just sink a bit of time into it, I basically reeeaaaally drag out the games.

I built a map for that looks quite like the Bloodied Colosseum that you Spotlighted - but with less gold, less space in the center and a goldshrine there. To enforce a lot of 4-way fighting about it.

I do capture and torture a lot what will make my army I suppose bigger than the game can handle, especially if we add the enemys armies to that, plus a loooot of imps on each side. I basically settle with 15 but it seems as if the AI has more.


I never actually take the goldshrine since I use blood money on a lot of creatures I dont want to convert so I can just make sure AI's keep going for it.


So to reproduce I would guess:

- use a map designed for constant fighting to just play for quite a while

- get a very big well trained army while enjoing the constant fighting

- at aroung 45-60min most Units stop acting

- make sure to play vs Master AI!


Also to note:

If I play this map with only 1 AI opponent I get nothing of this error, but 1 AI is waaay to easy

If I shorten it by winning faster I am obviously fine

If I pick certain maps where there is no gold shrine the AI won't function well anyway thus they never get big enough

If the game would hold for about 30 minutes longer I propably would never notice this, since I normally end the game at around 60 - 70 minutes

If you need the map itself tell me how to get it to you.


As for my system, since I forgot to post it before:


Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.151019-1254)

Language: German (Regional Setting: German)

BIOS: BIOS Date: 10/20/10 09:47:36 Ver: 08.00.10

Processor: AMD FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core Processor (6 CPUs), ~3.3GHz

Memory: 16384MB RAM

Available OS Memory: 16330MB RAM

Page File: 3538MB used, 14837MB available

DirectX Version: DirectX 11


Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti


I had the same issue on campaign level 10 where you're at bottom of map and kira is at the top and you have to destroy kenos (or pillars of light) can't remember....anyway

After building a significantly massive dungeon with only access to chasm is near the mana shrine to the east. Every other part of dungeon I left walls in order for my creatures to develop to level 10.

After maybe half an hour play time almost all my creature (beasts, imps etc) just seem to cease activity including looking after their own wellbeing, this causes them to fight each other and then leave, imps don't dig, don't fill tavern, drag unconscious back to beds, fetch corpses, nothing, not even build defences or constructs.

I think it has been fixed as of 1.3.1 update but will have to double check

Maybe you guys have a save game where the issue occurs you can share with us?

To retrieve and upload your save game, go to your steam installation and find the following subfolder:
<Steam Installation Directory>\Steam\userdata\<your steam user ID>\230190\remote

This folder contains all your save games, pick the one which starts with the level name you saved and with the modify date when you saved the game.
Pick both files, the one without ending and .meta and upload it here.

Maybe so we can look into the problem you encounter.

Thanks for your help





I noticed this without saving


But can you save the game when it happens and upload the save game?
I hope it still happens after loading the save game, so that we have a way to reproduce.

+1

I will see to it as soon as I can.


I don't have a save game for that yet. Since I (and propably everyone else) will be busy via Sylvester I can't promise that I can create one until next week.

+1

Okay I got to it and broke the game again.


I restarted the game completely 2 times and loaded into the map to make sure the issue is persistent.


Having a further look into it, I believe the error comes from simply too many actors for the AI/game to handle, thus breaking down. (As I mentioned before my army is quite huge)


I hope I got the correct files - If so you should be starting right into a battle at the center of the map, mainly vs the blue AI. There are quite a few imps around the flag doing nothing. You could also wait a Minute and try to summon a few more imps into the battle to pick up KO'd enemys or whatever.


split worlds_20160101154932


split worlds_20160101154932.meta


Cheers!


Thank you for the upload Wuschelteddy,
for some reason i can only download the meta file and not the save file above.
I am not sure if this is an issue with UserEcho or if something went wrong on uploading.
In case it is because the file has no ending, maybe put both in a zip.
We will try to figure out why the download link to the save file is broken.

Thanks for you help


+1

As requested:


Split Worlds.zip


Have fun with that :>

Nice fight :)
I have loaded the save game and nothing moved for a warmup time of like 20 seconds.
But then suddenly when the minimap was rendered (was black before) suddenly everyone was moving again the behaviour seemed correct.
Though I found a few workers which argued about who should drag a corpse so that multiple workers tried but no one succeed to drag it away.
This seems a bug indeed but I did not encounter that other units or workers get stuck after the ~20 sec warmup.
So I wonder if this is depending on different CPUs or something similar.
So for you every unit remains stuck after loading the save game and it doesn't "wake up" after a short time?


I played further to see what happens but I was finally able to win the battle and destroy the AI players without applying any coder cheats ;)
So for some reason on my end the level worked quite good, maybe I need to try it on a different rig.

True, it's not all units that stop working and never have been.


The initial loading time is also similar on my end, and basically after the minimap loads the fight ensues.


On my end it is mainly imps that stop functioning properly, similar to what you wrote about them flailing around and not beeing able to pick up corpes/KO'd units. They wont claim ground or farm gold or whatever imps also do. Also, for me, half of my imps just stand around and dont do anything. Sometimes they wake up after beeing slapped, mostly not.


What occurs on my end, and somhow not on yours, is that the fighting units attacking very much less frequent than they should. It looks like their brains are working at maybe 15% capacity, so their decision making to attack or run away is veeeeeeery slow.

Yea for me all workers did do a proper job after the warmup, i did not watch close if units attack less frequent.
But I get an idea how this could happen in case there is too much load on CPU.
It is made to scale over frames to make sure AI does never hurt rendering, but still has a minimum time it is always allowed to use.
Maybe this time is too small for a big 4 player battle and maybe it should not be smoothed over frames at all cost.
The thing is when we change that, you would probably get more intelligent behaviour at some cost of your framerate.
We will try to tweak on those things for next patch, however I am guessing your CPU is working on its limits, when battles get that big.
Would you prefer a bit lower FPS if this assures the AI acts still fast? So far we did go the full way to prevent it from hurting rendering performance at all.




We are not talking about the micro-stutters that we had a few patches ago, are we? I don't even know what FPS I currently run on. But I generally don't care for FPS as long as everything flows nicely.


But a different approach to solve this entirely would be to make it increasingly harder to satisfy the needs of a growing army. The Units are, in my opinion, waaaaay too modest in the first place. That units actually visit my realm when I don't even provide basic things like food and a place to sleep is weird.


Make it possible to fail at converting, so that units 'chose' to die rather than changing sides.


Well, these kind of things.


I played a bit longer and ended the game with 30 acolytes and 43 gnarlings alone. As much as I love BIG armys getting there is far too easy :>

+1

It's annoying and makes it hard to enjoy the game. On large and complex maps, with many creatures and rooms that over time have considerable time to correct inconsistent game mechanics sluggishness or dullness of workers and creatures.

This looks quite similar to something I posted before. Good to know others have this issue as well.


My Post:

https://brightrockgames.userecho.com/topic/1071870-units-stop-acting-after-prolonged-games/


Guess V0id will see this sooner or later


Cheers!



Thank You, Wuschelteddy. I used the suggestion in your theme.

My saving.

There are 2 of my game save to the card, which weighs more in kilobytes - is over.

+2

I have a simular issue too.


Long game. It was in campaign level with 2 Dungeon Keepers on opposite sides (Main player and Dungeon Keeper Mera). And the Kero relic in the middle and 4 spire things to destroy to get to the Kero Relic... I noticed throughout the level. That the other Dungeon Keeper AI just sat there at the 1st spire defeated & stuck... I was about to make the final rush to the last spire and I realized my minions were expiring on the floor from combat and my imps just standing there where ever they were at and didn't move at all... Then I noticed most of my minions were sluggish and not moving per the typical AI and quite frankly all over the place and not grouped from the rally flag... even after slapping away the rally flag... So I called the rally flag again on a PC unit attacking and only a few of my minions moved...then just stopped moving... while the enemy kept hitting them. Then a second or two later my minion would makea noise and would die after some time... I realized something went wrong and was glitching, so I picked up all my now unhappy units that I could and dropped them directly in the places they wanted to go. i.e. pickup pay in vault.

A few units picked up gold, but froze still... That's when I saved the game and closed the game down... It saved with the normal amount of loading time. But when I exited the game to desktop, it took longer than normal time.


As far as other notes...

-Yes I slapped minions / imps and no change.

-I got a message from the dakr god guy saying, You attached all the minions you can handle.

-I had almost full prisons.

-I have full torture chambers.

-I have full graves I think... can't tell...

-Both torture chambers and graves keep giving me more minions than the cap I think and could be causing an issue.

-The other Dungeon Keeper's minions were still at the same place the entire game. But they kept building and recruiting, so the rally flag squad kept getting larger and larger.


I'm starting to think the number of units is the key issue here. But I'll let you guys decide that.


Here's my specs:

  • Specify your platform
    • Windows 10
    • 64bit
      • Ram: 3GB (or 2.9 GiB)
      • CPU: Intel® Core™2 Quad CPU Q9300 @ 2.50GHz × 4
      • GPU: Gallium 0.4 on AMD RV670 (Radeon HD 3870 512 MB)
  • Build: WFTO V1.3.1f5

+1

Just a follow up. I started the game up again and loaded the save file. It worked... But the game it loaded showed my minions standing still where I left them.... after 5 minutes everything fully loaded (rest of map) and my minions moved and went on their way like nothing happened. A few objects took a bit to load in graphics, but it went to normal... The only thing I did notice otherwise was the Miro dungeon Keeper still had her minions at the rally flag like before and their AI never improved.

I went on to defeat that level, thinking maybe she was waiting on me to snatch up the relic and...well nothing changed. I won.

I went on to the next level with 5 keepers total and 50 minutes in I really noticed something like this again... It's not all of the sunden like I thought... maybe started earlier in the game play, but over time it got worse. But at 50 minutes in, I noticed my ALL rally point flag were only pulling maybe 7 minions in. But I knew I had more, so on my mini map I noticed minions walking around. I went to those dots and clearily they are walking around like normal as if they never heard the rally flag call them... Also game is slightly sluggish at this point. I was about to send in my forces with 2 sets of flags... mainly the beast flag and all flag and I just wasn't getting cooperation from any of my minions to come running.... btw, not sure if the other keepers minions were suffering AI issues... but they wern't springing to action on me like they were 20 minutes before.

Btw... when I say units / minions not moving at all. They stand there in resting position, breathing. Not frozen, but like they lost the will or thought process to move on. lol.


It does seem like after the game warmsup after loading up the save game, the games seem to work better again, enough to finish the level on my first go post. May take 2 loads for this current level.


BTW, I have both game saves if you want them. But I'm pretty sure it'll warmup just fine and repeat my results like it did with Wushelt's files... If you want to replicate, try the levels I explained and play for an hour mainly defending and moving out slowly with defenses etc. (slowly conquering) And I'm thinking you'll get the same effect over time.


PS: idk if this makes anymore sense to this... I usaully play my games on 50% speed. So even though my game reads 50minutes... it's a lot longer right? Is this the same with you Wushelt? b/c if so, then 45-50mins is an underestimate lol.

I also experienced this on campaign level 10 (The Kenos). I don't know what exactly triggered it, but 'Rally all minions' flag was active and I used possession on one of the minions around the flag. When I left the possession mode (after few minutes), all units were standing still. They resumed their normal activity after relocating the rally flag few times.

We have tried replicating it yesterday. We found that the units often react very slowly (even more if unhappy/Angry) in a prolonged game with a lot going on. it may have taken around 10 seconds for units to decide what to do. so far as i can see it this is a performance/lag issue.


It may be a lot worse weaker PCs.

I guess especially maps with a lot of hero dungeons or gigantic 4player maps are prone to this.

i merged the topics with similar issues.

Same issues here. The units are reacting very slow. In longer and bigger games they even freeze completely sometimes (they then start revolting after some time, but still don't move). No other laggs are occuring, zooming/scrolling and the animations are working fine .

Saving the game and loading it again fixes this for a little while. So maybe some kind of overflow in the AI?


First occurance: Kenos-Mission

Built: v1.3.1f5


System:

Linux Mint 17.2 Rafaela, 64 Bit

Phenom II X2 550 (2x 3,1 GHz), while playing @ ~85-90% workload

12 GB RAM

Radeon HD 5670

no SSD

Weirdly enough, I went back and loaded the save game I reported on last night. It started up...did it's warmup thing and it repeated the issue quite quickly...

I went on to the next level. It happened sooner. I had rallied all minions in 1 big room for a assult on me.

After defeating the enemy. I slapped the flag off and every single 1 of my minions stood there with thought bubbles for money, food etc. All or most of my imps were still performing their tasks I think... But the minions couldn't move.


So I called a rally flag and they started to follow it. I dismissed it and they went back to normal tasks like nothing went wrong ever.


Next time I was assulted. It repeated. But they never recovered in the same means and they still won't recover. :-(

+2

Hello guys,
i invested quite some time into this over the entire weekend and to be short.
TLDR:
It is fixed for next patch but might cause a bit more lag.

Long story:
First I was not able to reproduce the reported behaviour, but then I deep profiled the game which does utterly slow things down as I would use a rig below minimum requirements and by this suddenly the reported behaviour reproduced.
Based on Wuschelteddys save game I was able to look deeper into the problem.
So far we did everything to prevent AI from impacting rendering speed at all.
In a situation where there is not enough CPU capacitiy left for rendering, AI was slowed down and needed to wait in a queue.
As units were not allowed to get any runtime which would slow rendering the reaction times got way longer.
However in extreme situations the game was brought so far to the limits that the queue was emptied so slowly, that units even gave up for the moment and attempted later by queing again at the end of the queue so that some never succeed to actually get their query answered.
These were the units not moving at all which some of you got.
We fixed now that this odd situation can happen and dropped the idea to let AI never impact rendering speed.
Instead we apply a tradeoff now which assures none of both is starved, so that AI still acts reliable even when rendering would need the entire CPU.
With these changes I was able to fix all issues I got on Wuschelteddys save game while deep profiling the game.
However this is only possible by giving some runtime from the rendering to AI which might cause lower FPS on lower end systems.
But if you meet the minimum requirements this shouldn't be much, I guess in case of Wuschelteddy it will cost less than 3 FPS which and rigs which are strong enough to handle rendering and AI wont be impacted by the changes.
The changes made should allow way more units without AI issues (I guess around double) to the cost of some FPS on mid to lower end rigs.
War for the Overworld is a complex and demanding game and large 4 player map battles require decent hardware to run fluidly.
So if you are on the lower end of the requirements it is better to play smaller maps which are not focused around mass battle, it is also good idea to keep that in mind when designing bigger maps.
Otherwise AI shouldn't die anymore way before rendering gets slow with next patch, so that the reported issues should be all fixed.
Also the "warmup" time on large maps with many units should be way shorter and not feel that long anymore.

Cheers

Awesome! Thank you so much guys! Love the game! Telling all my friends about it.

+1

Not sure if this is related. But I did notice recently that during this whole glitch... some units never took damage from minions... or did very slowly... only way I could kill them off is with lots and lots and lots of lightning... and others I couldn't reach.

hi guys,

i am playing lately quite a lot with my friends and i do have the same issues.

after some time or amount of minions, a lot of minions keep stuck on walls or just stand around doing nothing, till finally they revolt. sometimes it helps to lift them up and set them into a new room, so they start moving again (but it will not last long, till other minions keep stuck or stop reacting).

its quite annoying, because you lose all your high tier minions by rebellion and get an army of half reacting level 1 minions....

@Schraer3 this has already been fixed, just wait for the next patch.


@v0id thx for the effort and fast fix :) i think the new behavior is way better than the old. If your PC is to weak for a game, you normally expect a lagging game and not non-moving units. If the units not move and the rest works smoothly everyone thinks it's a bug and starts complaining and/or votes the game down.

this is not fixed, yesterday i played the map called "fort mira" and at some point my minions were starving because the workers keep playing hard to get with piglets, i controlled most of the map didnt kill any inhibiters yet output_log.rar

also at some point minions will not be able to find a path to their lair due to it being to far away, this was mainly with thieves and juggernaughts, maybe in this case if their lair is really to far off they just go to the nearest lair with free spots and create a new one

Hello Sonny Bos.


When we say its fixed its fixed internally, AFAIK the public version didnt get an update for a while as we are working hard on 1.4. It should be ready soon :)

will this patch include a tom tom or sirri for minions so they can find their way better? "chunder: im looking for a shithole" "Sirri: i found 4 shithole's, 2 are fairly close to you"

The problem still persists in 1.4.2f2. I cant play for a long time on at least some maps ("my realm" for example) because units stop working as normal. Imps don't capture neutral space & dont move gold, other units can stay near gold or food and be unhappy because of "unpaid" or "hungry" (for tens of minutes, after which I exit the game).

Weird - you guys might want to make a new post on this - The problem I initially opened has been safely fixed for me 8 Month ago! I suppose it is a different issue.

Yes if you're suffering from this issue please report it separately. We'll need full details as this was well and truly fixed a long time ago :)